Hello, welcome back to Tote Bag Library! I don’t interact with children at all so children’s books are a big book world blindspot of mine. We’re doing something a little different today — I’ve interviewed my friend Selma about children’s books. Selma is The Virtual Babysitter and she has a ton of experience with children and how to keep them engaged. The interview has been edited for length and clarity. I hope you enjoy this issue!
Ruby (Tote Bag Library): So first off, what’s The Virtual Babysitter?
Selma (The Virtual Babysitter): I provide remote babysitting sessions online to keep kids occupied and entertained. It’s not educational in a tutoring sense. It’s just a way to keep kids entertained in a way that works for them. For now, it’s interactive storytelling sessions and drama classes. When I first started, I created my own books. I made books on Powerpoint where each slide is a new page. I just thought that if I wrote my own stories then I could control the activities. My stories always have an adventure element. We might change location, we might meet different characters. A kid’s storybook is probably 5 minutes long? And my sessions are 45 minutes long. So I need to have a story that allows for activities which the kids can do something physical, a story that creates conversation. I can ask them questions and they can respond. If it’s a very simple book, there’s not a lot of space to create activities that let the kids move around.
Ruby: You also have a decent library of children’s books right?
Selma: Yeah I do! When I was babysitting in person, a lot of the kids I babysat were bookworms and their parents were really big on books. Which was great. I learned a lot about kids’ books because they weren’t really allowed TV time. But the books then were still short books. Obviously kids’ books aren’t that long because you don’t want to tax the attention spans of children so I just had to find stories that fit the purpose of my sessions. My sessions are 45 minutes long. I just need to make sure there are things in the book that I can ask kids questions about. “Hey! They’re on a boat now, let’s pretend we’re on a boat!” But if the scene is just like “Tom and Jerry are cooking with their mum at home, it tastes nice,” it doesn’t leave a lot of room for activities.
Ruby: So do you find that a lot of kids’ books you pick up are just not engaging enough for children?
Selma: Honestly, I have to say, I don’t know if this just my experience but there are a lot of crap kids’ books.
[Ruby laughs]
Selma: A lot of kids’ books have lots and lots of pictures and a really poor narrative. Or they have a book for the sake of it. I remember going to the library once and being surprised like “huh? Someone wasted all of this time? Where was the effort in the story and the narrative?” I’m not saying picture books are bad. But when you have a book that’s meant to have a story, the story can’t be that weak. I read a book about a unicorn recently and it had like 10 words. Each page was a word. “The” “Unicorn” “Went” etc. It wasn’t even a younger kids’ book. To me, when kids’ books are bad it’s because people think it’s easy to write them. And there are some books I just don’t understand! You know The Tiger Who Came To Tea? It’s SO famous and I just don’t get it! I literally said to my babysitting mum, “Am I dumb? Am I missing something?” It’s just this tiger who comes to the house and eats all the food and then he leaves.
Ruby: Tigers are cool? Maybe that’s what it is.
Selma: I don’t get how it’s so famous. I personally don’t understand what makes some kids’ books so popular. What am I missing? It’s the same with kids’ shows! Why do kids like Cocomelon? But kids LOVE it. Everyone loves Peppa Pig. Why? Peppa Pig is rude too! She really … that’s a whole other thing. Kids’ TV shows.
Ruby: I feel like when parents buy a book they’re often looking for a beautiful book. Parents care a lot about pictures. Do you think kids care about pictures as much?
Selma: Not really! I think kids definitely want pictures but they’re not like “this illustration is great, this illustration is crap.” I don’t think kids are as critical as adults when they buy books. Stuff that’s colourful helps to catch their attention. Big bold drawings help too.
Ruby: What’s one kids’ book you’ve come across that made you say “that’s a good story”?
Selma: I read one recently that was recommended to me by a babysitting mum. It’s called Princess Daisy and the Dragon and the Nincompoop Knights. It’s written in rhyme—which I thought was quite impressive—and it’s about this princess who’s not allowed to slay the dragon because the knights are supposed to do it. It changes the whole damsel in distress trope. I do have parents, when I babysit, who ask for me to change those stereotypes. Let’s make everything more gender neutral. I like that! My recent favourite book is by a Singaporean writer and it’s called The Amazing Sarong. It’s a series. There’s The Brilliant Oil Lamp, The Marvellous Sugee Cake etc. It’s “about each race” in Singapore but I like Sarong because the protagonist goes on a little adventure around her kampong. I think books that take kids on a journey are great. That’s my personal preference. I have gotten this as gifts for other kids—even those who aren’t from Singapore, like my British babysitting kids.
Ruby: In your mind, what makes a good story? You mentioned going on an adventure. What keeps kids hooked? When I was working at the bookstore, I would see lots of really simple books like “Owl wakes up! Owl brushes his teeth! Owl walks to school!” And as an adult, I would wonder if kids even liked that.
Selma: I remember the first time I went book shopping for my babysitting kid, the mum gave me a budget and I came back and she said, “Oh some of these books are too wordy.” The kid was 2 at the time. At that age, when a story is too long and convoluted, they get lost. When they’re young, “Owl is sleeping” is a perfect book for them. You’re introducing language to them and so you’re repeating words like “owl”. Eventually, they’ll at least remember that word. I think that’s why kids books are short and why kids like to read books over and over again. That’s what they remember and what they’re familiar with.
Ruby: So you mentioned that for 2-year-olds, they like pretty simple stuff. I guess books about daily life help because they can match words to stuff that they’re seeing? What do good books look like for the different age ranges?
Selma: Some kids start reading at 6, right? So that’s like Peter and Jane level but with a few more words. I would say that 4-year-olds like books with 4 lines on a page or a bit longer. “The owl is blue” is definitely not appropriate for them. Those books might even work for kids who are younger, like 8 months old. It’s an activity that can get them used to the tactile feeling of books, an activity to get them sitting down and reading. I guess that’s where the very simple books come in. As they get older and become more verbal, you can test them with longer things. I have my own biases too! Sometimes I’ll just say, “I don’t like this book, can we please read another one.” Anyway, I think it really differs based on age too. When kids get a bit older and they’re able to read for themselves, I really like a series called The Magic Tree House. It brings kids on adventures around the world in history. The kids find this magic tree house and they can travel to places in history like Japan during the age of the ninja. It’s a great way to learn about history through a narrative. If you don’t enjoy reading the book then the kids aren’t going to like it either.
Ruby: What makes you not like a kids’ book?
Selma: When it’s boring! When nothing happens.
[Ruby laughs]
Selma: Oh gosh, I feel bad. Sometimes kids react to a certain book, like she’ll be able to complete the line. That’s fun, when the kid is reacting to a book. But if a kid is just staring while you flip the pages, that’s a bore. I think that if a book interests you as an adult, it will interest the kid. They can tell.
Ruby: I was just gonna ask what elements of stories really keep kids hooked? Do they like fights? Do they like it when there are friends? Do they like when there’s food? I’m not sure.
Selma: I think, honestly, anything that a kid is personally interested in will work. I have a kid who likes bunnies and she just says “It’s a bunny! Remember, I like bunnies!” So any book with bunnies works for her. I personally quite like rhyme because it helps kids remember the books and they’re better at repeating the words and completing lines. It encourages them to read the book over and over again. It gives them confidence because they know what’s coming next. I don’t sit there and test kids but it becomes a fun interaction for them. Pictures help too. I can’t really give you any specific answers because it really depends on what the kid is individually interested in.
Ruby: Your babysitting sessions usually use books as departures for other activities. What kinds of activities do you do? If I was a parent who was trying to make a book come to life for my kid, what would you recommend?
Selma: I would definitely ask questions. I did babysitting sessions for our high school literature teachers and that was great because they gave me a lot of feedback. Parents like when I ask the kids questions about the book. I’ll ask kids, “what happens next? Do you think the rabbit goes home or goes down the hole?” You get to see how the kid reasons and talk to them about their thought process. It also gets them more involved in the story. I also get them to do activities. Like if there’s an earthquake in a story, I’ll ask them to show me how they might move in an earthquake. I did the Amazing Sarong in a recent Live session and I asked kids to have a piece of cloth like a sarong or a blanket or a t-shirt. In the story, the protagonist goes on an adventure with the sarong and uses it for many things: as a towel or a scarf or a picnic blanket. So that was a way of getting kids physically involved in the story. There was also another Singaporean book called Saturday’s Surprisingly Super-Duper Lesson. It’s about a girl with a magic pencil who draws things that come to life. I asked kids to bring a pencil with them for the session so we could draw along with the main character. “Let’s try to draw a tree now and let’s imagine the tree coming to life!”
Ruby: If you could imagine a perfect children’s book, what would it be?
Selma: I would love to write a children’s book in rhyme. As the reader, it’s just really fun to read. A book that has different characters and is really diverse. I do look out for that when I’m picking books. A book that brings kids on an epic adventure. It also helps when there’s a lesson or a moral. I don’t think you need to push it but it’s nice when it’s there. There’s a book I read recently called Maurice who’s a monster who goes to monster school but he’s not that great at being a monster. I think different people can take away different things from it. Maurice is not great at being a monster because he’s kind and doesn’t really fit. But the end of the story is about how it’s okay to be you and you don’t have to be like everyone else to be a good person. It’s good to have these open-ended stories to discuss with kids. Like maybe you’re not great at sports but you’re at a sporty school. It’s ok! There’s something else that you’re going to be great at.
Ruby: I have one last question for you. Can you make a reader out of every child? Do you think all kids can learn to like books?
Selma: Interesting! I have experience with kids who are really big readers. I can just spend the whole session reading to them. But there are also kids who just want to flip pages and run around the house. I think every kid can be a reader but it’s just at different times. A parent shouldn’t feel bad if their 2-year-old isn’t sitting with a book. Their kid might just have other skills. I have kids who love reading and have great verbal skills but might be slower with hand-eye coordination. But other kids might be incredibly advanced with hand-eye coordination, like I had one who could ride a scooter at 2. But he was just not interested in books, and he’s slower verbally. You can make a reader out of every kid but there shouldn’t be set age milestones that parents should worry about. I truly believe that if you use books as a form of entertainment instead of the TV or YouTube, I think anyone can be interested in reading. It might be harder for some kids who have dyslexia or other learning disabilities, I haven’t personally babysat a kid who has one, but all kids just like listening to stories. Oh! Side note. I had a kid whose mum would just leave audiobooks on for them. So the kid would just be lying on the floor and looking at the ceiling while listening to an audiobook. Why can’t kids have audiobook time instead of TV time?
If you liked hearing from Selma and have/know children, you should definitely check out her services. She’s available for babysitting sessions (worldwide, timezones permitting) and does storytelling sessions on Instagram Live and IGTV that are free for everyone. I imagine her sessions would make a great gift for a stretched caregiver too! (If you’re a publisher who’s interested in giving Selma a book deal, lmk and I can set something up 😎)
This week’s cute surprise isn’t a big fluffy dog (as is my custom) but an adorable picture from one of Selma’s sessions.
See you next time for a return to our regular programming—me droning on about the books I’ve read. Stay safe!